hello, Bill!

how can I help you today?

Hello Mark.

I really just stopped by to lurk :)

um, OK

So, I will ask a question.

What are your thoughts on 100% code coverage with regards to tests? I'm trying to talk down the zealots but they're in the morally defensible position.

100% code coverage is a nice ideal

having hair is a nice ideal

it's not an ideal world

:-)

or perhaps (:-) to emphasize my balding pate

I am bald.

:)

well, hey, it's a not-ideal world all over, then :-)

Do you know of any organizations that have publicly disputed the benefits of 100% code coverage?

diminishing returns, etc

not off the top of my head

Looking for something that is going to save us some pain.

though diminishing returns is exactly where my concern would be too

Right on. I couldn't find any either.

at some point, you need to start weighing the cost of figuring out how to test the thing, compared with the cost of *not* testing the thing

Right.

I know they will feel the pain, but at the moment I'm the guy telling them 100% is unrealistic and all they hear are the other guys saying we should have 100%.

Not a bad position. I'm respected well enough.

I guess it's just like kids: can't live it for 'em. Some things they've just got to figure out on their own (and then don't be smug about it) ;)

that's OK -- my nephews are just getting into Scratch, and I doubt they have 100% code coverage :-)

What's on your Android radar (trending in, trending out, etc.)

that's a bit tough to answer

nowadays, that's like asking what's trending in Windows

kinda broad subject

I'm more interested in specifically what has your eye/ear.

I can follow the blogs. What does Mark care about ;)

well, what has my ear is the wailing and gnashing of teeth as the next wave of people move into Android Studio, then cannot quite figure out why their tutorial/video/blog post doesn't exactly line up

then again, I spend lots of time on Stack Overflow

The migration from Eclipse to AS made me drink.

hopefully a nice fruit juice

It was mostly natural.

a lot of the Android developer cognoscente think that Android Studio 1.0 means "we're done!"

from where I sit, this is when the hard part starts

I struggle with one of Google's very on paradoxes: they won't upgrade my gradle dependencies automatically when I upgrade AS because that might break my code, however, my code can no longer be built with the current version of AS and the old version of gradle :P

yeah, that's supposed to be better now with Android Studio 1.0 and Gradle for Android 1.0

Yeah? Do tell ...

RE: "the hard part starts"

ah

well, as Mr. Gibson put it, the future is here, it's just not evenly distributed

lol

getting Android Studio knowledge out, to the point it is where people turn to first, and where it covers all that we had with Eclipse, will take years

Indeed.

given language barriers, search engine ranking rules, etc.

It is just different enough that it can be problematic.

particularly if you are not a native English speaker

given sufficient English skills and mental plasticity, switching IDEs is no big deal

annoying at times, but manageable

but if you are having difficulty grokking anything, the fact that only a small subset of "anything" is Studio-centric is a problem

this is compounded by the fact that there's little documentation on developer.android.com

and few know about tools.android.com (and what's there is of uneven recency)

I have speculated that we will see a dip in developers given the transition in tools + the requirement to learn the new build system.

I think it will turn around for the better, but the barrier to entry got a little higher even if only temporarily.

Agreed.

the barriers to entry definitely keep climbing

Thanks for the chat Mark. I'll hang out for a bit to see if anyone else shows up to ask interesting questions.

OK

if you come up with another question, chime in

any last questions?

well, that's a wrap for today's chat

tomorrow's is 9am US Eastern

as usual, I will post the transcript to this chat at http://commonsware.com/office-hours/ shortly

have a pleasant day!